My fellow Pilgrims to the Holy City:
Greetings to you in the sweet and precious name of Jesus Christ (Y’shuah). I am coming to you at this time with a bit of exciting information. For over 85 years now The Shepherd’s Rod has been growing in the Adventist church, to the great vexation of our church leaders, and its growth and survival over the years has been unstoppable, even though it has been maligned and falsely associated with the nefarious Branch-Davidian movement of David Koresh, and other false teachers.
Recently, an Adventist Preacher/Elder, who has made a deep study into the teachings of The Shepherd’s Rod, has unveiled a series of YouTube videos in which he completely “dismantles,” and exposes “What Shepherd’s Rod Believe and Why It’s Error.” This video series is a must-see for every serious-minded Seventh-day Adventist. Here is the link to the first one, dealing with Daniel 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-Ac1U4wxQw
Here is an audio file presentation I delivered a few months ago, without any knowledge of Elder Skyes’ ministry: https://sdaprophecies.wordpress.com/2015/08/30/the-kingdom-of-glory-audio-files/
Below I have provided some historical collections of our Denomination’s established teachings on Jeremiah’s “battle-axe.” So, as you review the video from Elder Skyes, it will be helpful to keep these pillar church doctrines in mind.
In this first one, here is our historical view on the “battle axe” (Jer. 51: 20) and the Stone’s filling the whole earth (Dan. 2: 35).
“We have come to see that the stone is the saints, who are to take the Kingdom. Also that they are the rod with which the nations are to be broken; (see Psa. 2: 8, 9; 72: 1-2; 110: Jer. 10: 16-18; 51: 19-25. “The portion of Jacob is not like them; for he is the former of all things; and Israel is the ROD of his inheritance; the Lord of hosts is his name. Thou art my battle-axe, and weapons of war, for with thee will I break in pieces the horse and his rider; and with thee will I break in pieces the chariot and his rider, &c. See also Rev. 2: 25-28; Psa. 149.— Well the saints of the most High shall take the Kingdom.”– The Day-Star, January 24, 1846, G.W. Peavey, p. 25, Col. 2, paragraph 2. Emphasis added; Italics belong to original; also found at: http://documents.adventistarchives.org/AdvRelated/WMC/WMC18460124-V09-07,08.pdf
Through its familiar dialectic, the precursor to Bible Readings for the Home, published in 1888, surveyed the topic of Daniel 2, and it is helpful to see how it leads the reader to the correct conclusions, (please check the verses out as you read below):
50. After the image had been developed, what did the prophet see? Verses 34, 35.
51. What do we understand this stone to be? Verse 44.
52. Could not this stone symbolize the gospel of Christ, and its introduction into the hearts of men? Verses 34, 35.
53. At what time, then, do we understand this kingdom is to be set up? Verse 44.– THE BIBLE-READING GAZETTE, Review and Herald Publishing, 1888, p. 85; also found at: http://documents.adventistarchives.org/Books/BR1888.pdf
I love history, and I love Bible study, and the most important part of my church life is Sabbath School, because it is “the church at study.” Now, look with me at our denomination’s teaching in 1975, regarding the Lord’s “battle axe,” to see if it is Jesus or Babylon. Why? Because in his attempted “dismantling” of the Rod, Elder Skyes is alone, among all Bible commentators, in his suggestion that this “battle-axe” is Jesus Christ, on account of the phrase “The Lord of Hosts is His name” (v. 19).
“Thou art my battle axe and weapons of war: for with thee will I break in pieces the nations, and with thee will I destroy kingdoms.” Jer. 51:20.
“Read also Jer. 51:21-23; 50:23. By divine inspiration Jeremiah calls Babylon a “battle axe” or a “hammer” (RSV). God used this hammer for the accomplishments of His purposes. About one hundred years earlier the prophet Isaiah had spoken of Assyria as “the rod of mine anger” (Isa. 10:5), “used by God for a season as the rod of His anger for the punishment of the nations.”—Prophets and Kings, p. 349.– Adult Sabbath School Lessons No. 322, October-December, 1975, Lesson 9, entitled: Babylon—Ancient and Modern, Sunday, November 23, p. 72, http://documents.adventistarchives.org/SSQ/SS19751001-04.pdf
In our most recent quarterly on Jeremiah, the lesson did not cover Jer. 51, hence I would have cited it here. So our most recent denominational position of Jer. 51: 20 demonstrates that as a church we believe (wrong or right) that the “battle-axe” is Babylon. We need to see the authority that the fine elder presents for the foreign conclusions he has drawn from this text, for in his interpretation he has manifestly charted his own path, contrary to the established position. Why is he being honored as a hero of the faith, while the Shepherd’s Rod is condemned?
Overall: You should see how Harold Skyes, in his effort to “dismantle” The Shepherd’s Rod as error, has actually served only to dismantle the established Seventh-day Adventist doctrines. It is true in the popular culture that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend,” and so since the General Conference disdains the Rod, and elder Skyes also shares a similar disdain, then his popularity in our churches will rise, but at what cost? I was saddened that the Elder did not show an artistic depiction generated by the SDA Church in contrast to that of the Shepherd’s Rod. In fact, I went searching for those colorful Voice of Prophecy and Amazing Facts charts, without any success. If you find an Adventist prophecy illustration of Daniel 2 which either depicts the mountain(s), or discusses it or them, please forward to me. I’d be grateful, as my searches even in the Bible commentary prove nil.
Let me now show in juxtaposition the artistic depiction from The Shepherd’s Rod, vs. that of the SDA Denomination. First, though, please read the text:
“Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.” Dan. 2: 45.
- Do you notice that there is a mountain from which the stone was “cut”? If you do, you will have seen what nearly 100% of all modern Adventist authors on this subject have not. Now look at the two artistic depictions:
It is rather amusing to see the SDA “stone” hurtling through interstellar space to make its touchdown at the image’s feet, whereas The Shepherd’s Rod depiction (picture on the right) shows exactly what Daniel described–the stone cut from the mountain. Not shown on this slide is that the same stone became a “great mountain” and filled the whole earth, (Dan. 2: 35), not heaven, as Elder Skyes projects.
Now, prior to Harold Skyes’ presentation, an Adventist church in Mesa Arizona had published their power point presentation in their effort to “discredit” The Shepherd’s Rod, but all I have remaining of that exposure is the broken link: http://www.noahsarkpediatrics.com/Rebuttal_to_the_Rod.pdf. My guess is that they became embarrassed for the glaring errors they had posted, in opposition to the Truth of God’s word, and it is likely that a learned theologian may have persuaded them to remove it from the public space! Whether or not my assumptions are the reasons for pulling this webpage, the fact is clear that it is no longer available as a teaching instructional tool in defense of the denomination’s unscriptural position on this topic.
If you have not done so before, do yourself the favor and take a look at my website: www.sdaprophecies.wordpress.com, and listen to my presentation on Daniel 2, then let’s talk about the comparative theology of Skyes vs. the Rod. You can search my site for audio files and listen to Daniel 2: Romancing With The Stone.
I encourage sharing elder Skyes presentation with anyone, for he demonstrated that he is a very poor student of the Scriptures. Just one reason here: The Bible uses various symbols to represent the same object or concept, under different circumstances, and as students of the Word, we must be sensitive to this.
- It uses a mountain to represent his church, and or a kingdom, such as Babylon.
- It uses a lion to represent Jesus Christ (Y’shauh), and Satan
- It uses a serpent to represent Jesus Christ and Satan
- It uses a “star” to represent Jesus Christ and Satan
- It uses “winds” to represent wars and strifes, and false doctrines, as well as “bad news”
- It uses water to represent truth, people, salvation, eternal life, and nations, etc
- It uses honey and milk to represent the Law of God or the whole Word of God–the Bible
- It uses a stone to represent Jesus Christ, Jerusalem, and the saints, such as “Peter”
With these variations, we cannot simply pick a verse or quotation and register the truth, but must respect the context in which the symbols live.
Personally, I have no bitterness for the Elder, and see him as a Saul of Tarsus, kicking against the proverbial prick. While on this point, do take the time to read the healthy exchange both he and I had. My handle is “Heralding King”. Please also keep in mind my book, What Every Seventh-day Adventist Should Know About The Shepherd’s Rod, to be released by August 2018.
The challenge Daniel 2 presents for SDA theologians is the fact that the stone was “cut out” of the mountain. The verb to “cut out”, clearly shows an act of “separation” as on the day of atonement, when the unrepentant sinner is “cut off,” and which does not fit the context of Christ’s coming from heaven to this earth. Secondly, another nuisance point is that the stone was “cut out” from a “mountain” (most Adventists do not know this), and it also became “a great mountain and filled the whole earth,” (SDA theology does not explain this, just the verse is quoted without any commentary.) Here is a great SDA resource online for this topic: http://www.remnantofgod.org/daniel2.htm
Below are more historical statements on the true SDA teaching of these prophecies, demonstrating that Elder Skyes’ interpretation is an undoing of the historical SDA teaching and is not the undoing of the Shepherd’s Rod:
The service outlined for this great temple was one of sacrifice. It cannot therefore belong to the future, for in God’s plan the last sacrifice has long since been offered. Never again will He accept the blood of bulls or goats, for these were only typical, and they all pointed to the cross. Had Israel been loyal to Jehovah, He had wonderful plans in which they could have acted a part, but failing in that loyalty the battle axe (Jer. 51: 20-22) had to be cast aside as of no value. Then He had finally to choose another people to do His work. Matt. 21:43.– Australian Record, February 27, 1939, p. 5, Col. 2; http://documents.adventistarchives.org/Periodicals/AAR/AAR19390227-V43-09.pdf
The captivity permitted to come upon Israel was designed as a chastisement that might lead them back to repentance and obedience. And with that thought in mind the Lord planned great things for His restored people. Speaking of them and the part they were to act in ruling the nations, the Lord said through Jeremiah :— “Thou art my battle axe and weapons of war; for with thee will I break in pieces the nations, and with thee will I destroy kingdoms; and with thee will I break in pieces the horse and his rider; and with thee will I break in pieces the chariot and his rider. . . . I will also break in pieces with thee the shepherd and his flock; and with thee will’ I break in pieces the husbandman and his yoke of oxen; and with thee will I break in pieces captains and rulers.” Jer. 51 : 20-23. In return for their chastisement by the nations the Lord intended to use them as a rod wherewith to chastise the nations for the evil that, was fast filling up their cup of iniquity.– Australian Signs of the Times, August, 29, 1904, p. 4, Col. 2; http://documents.adventistarchives.org
The evidence is overwhelming that the “battle-axe” and the stone are one and the same, and that this has been a long-held Seventh-day Adventist position. To now condemn the Shepherd’s Rod as false prophecy in the light of our denominational history is impossible without condemning the Adventist church as an institution build on the foundations of “false prophecy.” Please observe the below quotation, delivered while Ellen White was alive, in an official Denomination organ in which she published the church for over a hundred years now has held that the “battle-axe” is God’s people, originally Israel after the flesh. How then could Harold Skyes get away with teaching the very opposite, that it is and always has been Jesus Christ? This only goes to show that as long as someone simply appears to be opposing the Shepherd’s Rod that such ones are elevated in the eyes of church leaders and members alike, even if it requires them distancing themselves from the denomination’s historical roots.
Then it was that the Lord put His sword into the hand of Israel, and sent them to destroy the people whom He had already judged unworthy of life. Just as surely as the waters of the deluge visited His wrath upon the antediluvian world, and just as certainly as the fires of Sodom poured out His judgments upon the cities of the plain, so surely did Israel wield the sword of the Lord in meeting out destruction upon the people of Canaan. ” Thou art my battle-axe and weapons of war,” said the Lord in speaking of Israel. Jer. 51 : 20. Had that people proved loyal and obedient, they would have so remained, for the Lord had planned great things through their instrumentality. Deut. 7 : 5, 23. But in their wilfulness the battle-axe lost its edge, and then the Lord had to use other nations to chastise Israel. True, Israel fought many battles the Lord never planned, and for which He can in no way be held responsible. Some of these were wilful battles, some, struggles for place and power that the Lord did not design for His people. Others, again, were for mere self aggrandisement. But the battles commanded by Jehovah were not of like character with these. They were deluge-struggles, judgment out-pourings in which Israel was but the instrument of divine visitation. God chose to take that way of punishing a rebellious and unrepenting people, and Israel was the instrument just as logically as the deluge or the fires of Sodom.– Signs of the Times, Melbourne Australia, July 14, 1913, p. 439; http://documents.adventistarchives.org
2 thoughts on “Daniel’s Stone And God’s Battle-Axe”
can you prove that the mountain is on earth? this my first question
Hi Clint, I hope you are aware that there are TWO mountains called out in Dan. 2! While I restate my understanding of what the Bible says, below, I will also pose a counter to your question: Can you prove that neither of the mountains is in Heaven?
Are The Mountains of Dan. 2 in Heaven or on Earth?
“But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be *in the latter days.* Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;” Dan. 2: 28
Since the prophet told the king, under the inspiration of God that this dream is for “the latter days” or days to come, it is evident that it was speaking of things to consummate ON earth! He then went on to describe the rise of seven kingdoms *on earth*! I am assuming you are SDA, but if I’m incorrect, that’s fine too, but I mention it because we typically only see four kingdoms, as a church. Having said that, let me now enumerate the seven kingdoms:
4. Pagan Rome-Legs of Iron
5. Papal Rome-Feet of Iron and clay
6. Ten Toes–Iron and clay
7. God’s Kingdom–in the days of the “toes” kings
Of the 7th kingdom, the Scriptures declare, “And *in* [during not after] the days of these kings [toes] shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to *other people,* but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.” Dan. 2: 44 [added].
The Bible is clear that God’s kingdom will not be left to “other people,” suggesting that there are SOME people who will gain admittance into it while there will be “other people” who will be excluded based on their choice! Clearly, this situation can only be worked out during probationary time, such as during the days of Noah, when “other people” than Noah’s immediate family saw the benefit of entering into the ark before the rains began to fall!
Furthermore, regarding this first mountain, which is the representation of the “stone” that smote and destroyed the image, the Bible is abundantly clear:
“Forasmuch as thou sawest that *the stone was cut out of the mountain* without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.” Dan. 2: 45.
Since this dream is certain and its “interpretation SURE,” we must ask ourselves the searching question, what is certain, and what is SURE? To begin with, let’s examine the evidence before us in the Scriptures:
“34 Thou sawest till that *a stone was cut out [of the mountain, v. 45] without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. 35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and *the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.*” Dan. 2: 34, 35 [added].
From this testimonial we are clear of several things:
1. The stone was “cut out” without human aid–by divine design, hence it has nothing to to with the devisings of men. The verb to “cut out” means to be separated (check you Bible concordance on this), which would be impossible for Christ to be “cut out” of heaven, through the act of “separation” from the Father’s, in the establishment of His kingdom “in latter days”! Even at his first advent Christ was not “separated” or severed from Heaven, even though he felt that anguish of soul from the Father’s presence when on the cross he cried out, “my God. my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”
2. The stone “smote the image on its feet,” and these feet were standing on the earth!
3. The stone grew and “became” a “mountain” and engulfed, or “filled the whole earth.”
4. All of these events transpired on this earth during “the latter days,” and DURING the “reign” of the toe kingdoms of earth.
5. Further too, since the stone destroyed the image, and the stone is called by God His “kingdom,” it could not destroy the earthly kingdoms without itself first being established! In other words, the kingdom has to first exist without the “other people” BEFORE it could possibly destroy the existing kingdoms during their reigns.
For me, it is an easy conclusion that all of these events transacted on earth and during probationary time, for since the stone is also the kingdom of God, and it had the ability to GROW–increase with inhabitants and fill the WHOLE EARTH, the only way that this is possible is through the work of the everlasting gospel. As the gospel is preached by the 144,000 evangelists, they will gather in a great multitude of converts (Rev. 7: 9), from “every nation, kindred, tongue, and people.”
That this is NOT the Second Advent of Christ, as taught by the greatest portion of the Christian Church easily disproven by the context of the prophecy, and the testimony of other Bible writers on scenes pertaining to the Second Coming of Christ. Since I’ve broadly discussed this in the article above, it is sufficient to merely state that when Christ returns he will NOT tough foot on this planet-earth, even though the “certain” and “sure” prophecy of Daniel 2 shows differently, that the stone will not only be on the earth, but it will GROW and enlarge itself to “fill the whole earth!”
I trust this was helpful. I shall await your response as to how you see one of both of these mountains being in heaven. Shalom in Messiah.
Of the Second Mountain the Bible is clear:
Six of these seven kingdoms